Fuzoku Soshi · June 1953: Masochism Special Issue

All-Women Roundtable

Author: Uncredited Printed pages: Unknown PDF pages: 165 –175

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被虐の愉悦を語る……
オールまぞ女ばかりの座談会

出席者
西条ミドリ（二二）　モデル
浜村英子（二八）　会社秘書
長谷部由美（二九）　美容師
深水たか世（三一）　主婦
司会　本社編集部
於　文京区料亭さつき荘

初めて縛られた時の経験

司会　西条さん以外の方とは、いままで文通で交際してきた方々ばかりで、こうしてお目にかかるのは今日が初めてですね。みなさんはお互いに初対面なんですが、いわゆるマゾヒズムという感情を通じて、十年の知己に会ったつもりで何でもお話して頂きたいのです。それに、こういう機会はめったにないことなんですから、今日はうんとハメを外してお話願いましょう。

司会　浜村さんは京都、長谷部さんは仙台から特に遠路御出席願ったのですが、司会者としてもこんな嬉しいことはありません。では、西条さんあたりからまず口切りをお願いしましょう。みなさんの方でも、写真を通じて彼女をよく知っているんですから……。

西条　私なんか……。今日はみなさんのお話を拝聴するって、先刻も云った通りですわ。誰か他の方からお願いして下さい。

司会　最初から尻込みしてたんじゃ座談会にも何にもならない。西条さん、あんたはモデルさんとして縛られた以外に、ほんとうに経験がないの？

西条　ええ、だって相手がいないんですもの……。

司会　最初のとき、私が縄を出したら震えていたね。心臓の音がハッキリ聞こえた。

（一同笑声）

西条　恐ろしかったんですもの。何かされるんじゃないかと思って……。

司会　可哀相なくらいだったね。でも私の経験では、そういう外部的にハッキリ反応を示してくれるひとが一番いい。事務的に、どうせモデルなんだからと無表情に手を後へ回すようなモデルさんは最後までコチコチだね、色気なんて全然ない。西条さんは感情の変化を体全体に見せて、それが実に初々しいので、あのときの写真はまず成功だった。この頃は慣れたせいか、色気が乏しいですね。

西条　初めて縛られたとき、あとで背中が痛くて、とうとう二、三日他の仕事を休んでしまったわ。

司会　それほどきつく縛らなかったでしょう。縄の跡など全然つかなかったし……。未知なるものに対する不安から、必要以上に体を固くしたり神経をつかったせいだね。でも、イヤじゃなかったんでしょう、すぐまた来てくれたからね。

西条　それは商売だから……。

司会　いや、それ以外にイヤでなかったという証拠がある。

浜村　証拠って、何ですの？

司会　つまり、歴然とその感情を生理的に残していったんですよ。西条さんが帰ったあとで下着をかたづけていると、それが残っていたってわけです。下穿きにね。

西条　まあ、いや、みなさん、そんなこと……。

司会　ほら、顔が赤くなった。

（一同笑声）

長谷部　そういう感情があったら、それは当然ね。私なんか食いついてやりたいようなイヤな相手だったが、やっぱりエレクトしちゃいましたものね。

深水　貴女が初めて縛られたときですの、それ？

長谷部　美容学校へ通っていた頃、もうじき卒業という頃だったので、いい点が取りたくてねえ。私、美容体操がとても下手でちょっと自信がなかったんです。美容体操の先生にいやに好かないひとがいたんですが、その先生に縛られちゃって……。

一同　どんな風にして縛られたの？

長谷部　「君は美容体操が全然駄目だ。そんな成績じゃ、卒業証書はやれないよ」って云うんです。私はまだおぼこだったし、泣き出しちゃったんです。そうしたら「泣かなくても、放課後に毎日一時間ずつ特別にレッスンをやってゆきたまえ」って、その日とうとうクタクタになるまで続けさせられてしまったんですが、その間、先生は終始じっと私のレッスンを見守っているの。疲れてフラフラと椅子に腰を下ろすと「勝手に休んではいけない、僕がいいと云うまで続けたまえ」って、とうとう膝がガクガクするまでやらされてしまったの。

深水　まあ、相当のサディストね、その先生。

長谷部　そうなんですの。私、そのときまで全然そんなことに気がつかなかったんですが……疲れてしまって、もう物を云うのも億劫だったのです。すると「疲れたでしょう、僕がマッサージをしてやるからその長椅子の上へ寝たまえ」と殆んど命令的に云われると、私は不思議と、自分で意志しないうちに傍の長椅子に寝かされてしまったんです。ところがそのマッサージが曲者、疲れていたせいもあったけれど、先生のマッサージが始まると私はいつかうつらうつら眠ってしまったの。

何とも云えない気持になって……。ふと気がついて眼をあけると、胸がはだけ、スカートが脱がされているんです。先刻のまま長椅子の上に寝かされているので、はっと気がついて起きあがろうとすると、手と足を縛られて自由がきかない。急に怖くなって声を出そうとしたら、ちゃんと猿ぐつわまでされているんです。

西条　それで、その先生、何もしなかった？

長谷部　野暮な質問、と云いたいんですが、実は何もされなかったわ。その先生、インポなんですって……。あとで聞いたら「僕はこうして女のひとを縛って眺めるだけでエレクトするんだ」って、とても嬉しそうな顔をしていたわ。

司会　そうだね、インポのサディストって案外に多いんですよ。私の友人に、四十六になって女を知らない男があります。縛りの写真を集めるだけでいいんです。その友人に云わせると、縛られた女はどんな美人より美しい芸術だと云っています。

長谷部　私、そんなことされたのですが、それから急にその先生が好きになっちゃったみたい。

深水　それから、ちょいちょい縛られたの？

長谷部　私の身内に眠っていたマゾの血を目覚ましてくれたのですね、その先生が。それ以来、ときには私の方から積極的に縛られるようになってしまったわ。でも、とうとう他の先生に見つけられちゃって……私も間もなく卒業してしまうし、その先生もすぐ辞めてしまったし……それっきりになってしまいましたわ。

浜村　こんなお話、常態な女性にはわかってもらえませんわね。「変態」だって一笑に軽蔑されてしまいますから……。私は真面目な会社に勤めていますし、社長附の秘書なんかやっているので、それでなくても誤解されやすいでしょう。だから昼と夜の生活をハッキリ分けて、会社にいるときは全然カマトトなんですの。男のひとがよく女を縛った話などしているでしょう、ドキッとして息が詰るほど興奮してしまうときがあるの。でも、知らん顔をしてとぼけているんですが、そんな日は家へ帰ると、途端に体中の血が一遍に逆流してしまいますわ。もう、じっとなどしていられないんです。

司会　浜村さん、いまお相手がいるんですか？

浜村　それが全然。適当な方がいたら御紹介願えませんこと？

司会　信じられませんねえ、貴女くらい美しい方に相手がいないなんて。

長谷部　私なんかも、現在は完全に閑。

司会　本当ですか？　どうも信じられないがな……。もっとも、これが常人の神経なら、わけなく相手が見つかるでしょうが、なまじ神経が贅沢にできているからね。

長谷部　贅沢じゃなくて、規格外御別品じゃないかしら……。

（笑声）

こんな風に縛られてみたい

司会　貴女方のマゾ感情に一番ぴったりした縛り、つまり被虐の悦びを味わうにはどんな風にしたらいいでしょうか。ひとくちに云うと、どんな風にして縛られたときが最もエレクトするか、ということなんですね。

深水　最近、よく映画なんかに縛りの場面が出てきますね。［映画題名判読不確実］の［女優名判読不確実］はよかったわね。「稲妻」で乙羽信子の芸者が菅井一郎に縛られる場面が特にいいと思いましたが、ああいう映画を見ると共感をおぼえ、無性に縛られたくなってしまうわね。あの映画を見たあとで、途中で待合へ寄って主人に縛ってもらいました。

長谷部　「縛り」とひとくちに云いますけど、折檻とか拷問のようなものと、合意で性交の前戯としてそういうことをする場合とがありますわね。私は映画とか小説で折檻や拷問の場面を見たり読んだりするとゾクゾクするほど興奮しちゃいますが、自分ではそうされるのはイヤですわね。やはり、たとえ身動きもできないくらい縛られたとしても、そうやって征服されたあとで性交するのでなくてはイヤですわ。暴力の伴う縛りは、私まだそれまで経験がないので……。

司会　長谷部さんの場合、最初の相手がインポだったので、それが潜在的に一つの型をつくり上げてしまっているんですよ。さいわい貴女は、それ以上アブの域に足を踏み入れていないんです。それは結構なことだと思いますね。マゾとしては最も安全だと思います。

浜村　私は駄目ね。そんなことくらいじゃエレクトしませんわ。荒々しい男の暴力がどうしても必要、骨が曲るほど殴られ、［一部判読不確実］くらい［一部判読不確実］してもらわないとね。私は完全にアブノーマルですわ。

司会　浜村さんの場合、確かにちょっとアブの傾向がありますね。でも実際には、その半分も行っていないようですが、どうでしょうか。貴女の場合、ただ縛られただけでは問題にならない、相手の加虐が或る程度必要なんでしょう。ひどい目にあったことあるんですか？

浜村　実際には、まだそれほどひどい目にはあっていませんけれど……。

司会　いろいろみなさんのお話をうかがっていると、とにかく一応は相当程度昂進したマゾヒストですね。

深水　私はくすぐられるのがいちばん辛いわね。殴られるのは案外平気なんですが……。この前ちょっとした誤解から夫婦喧嘩をしちゃって、主人をほんとうに怒らしてしまったことがあるんです。主人は私を縛って［一部判読不確実］。縛られてくすぐられるんですから苦しくて苦しくてどうにもならない、とうとう私、意識のない粗相をしてしまったんです。座敷の真中で放尿をしてしまったのですよ。恥しくもあるし泣き出しちゃったんですが、あとで主人の方が大変気まずいようでしたわ。

浜村　まあ、やられちゃったわね。

司会　手厳しいとは御主人ですな。

深水　あら、ごめんなさい。

（笑声）

マゾと刺青の興奮

司会　今度は方向を替えて、みなさん取って置きの、誰にも話せない話、つまり、こういうとき以外にはおそらくお話しする機会もないと思いますから、初めての打明け話ということになりましょうか、それを一人々々御披露して頂きたいんですが……。浜村さん、例の刺青の話、あれからどうなりました？　丁度いい機会ですから、あのお話をみなさんに御披露して下さい。

浜村　あら、あれは困りますわ。

司会　先刻も云ったように、ここにお揃いのみなさんは、あなたに負けず劣らずのマゾヒストなんだし、いずれあなたに負けない面白いお話を発表していただけると思いますから。

長谷部　そうですわ、いまさら尻込みをなさることはございませんわ。その刺青のお話ぜひおききしたいわ。

司会　刺青のあるものは心理的にはマゾなんですね。あの苦痛を抑える快感、あれがいいじゃないですか。浜村さんはどうでした？

浜村　針を入れられてゆくときの気持、最初は、ただ痛いだけで、それを我慢するのに精一杯でしたが、二度目三度目とだんだん図形が完成してくる頃になると、針だとか墨だとか刺青のお道具を見ただけでエレクトしてしまいそうになります。そうなると、こんどは一針一針にいいようのない快感が疼痛感とベッチャになって、もう悦惚としてしまいます。

司会　刺青師の話をきくと、刺青は男より女の方が我慢に強いと思いますよ。本能的にマゾなんだからそれは当然でしょう。

長谷部　浜村さん、どこへ入れになったの。よろしかったらお見せになっていただけませんこと。ねえ、みなさん。

西条　私、女のひとの刺青、見たことありませんわ。ぜひ拝見したいわ。

司会　そうですね、では速記がすんでからお風呂の仕度もできているので、あとでお風呂に入ったときでも……いいでしょう、浜村さん。

浜村　あら、大変なことになってしまったわ。

司会　どうせあとで現物を拝見するんだからいいと思いますが、浜村さんの刺青はちょっと判りにくいんです。下腹部のところで、それも十五糎四方くらいの大きさなので、ちょっと手拭かタオルで前をおさえたらわかりませんよ。

（笑声）

浜村　イヤですわ、そんなことまでおっしゃっては……。実はそうやって白ばっくれてしまおうと思ったのに。

深水　その刺青を入れた動機というのは？

浜村　そういう願望が芽生えたのは、確か女学校の二年のときだったと思います。その頃、上級生の間に刺青をすることが流行っていましてね、刺青と云ってもひどく他愛ないもので、十字架とかXXとか、或は自分の頭文字をローマ字で入れる程度なんです。それもすぐ人目につくところへはしないんです、胸の下とか内腿とかね。私は下腹部のすぐ上に十字架を入れたのです。

あとで陰毛が多くなればわからなくなってしまいますんでね。

（笑声）

それがとても愉快なんですね、内心ではうれしくてたまらないんです。毎日、鏡を出して眺めたりして……。それが家の女中に発見されたとき、本当に死んでしまおうかと思いました。

でも、その女中が、大変なデブで刺青［一部判読不確実］。そのことは誰にも云わないからって、とうとう同性愛にさせられてしまいましたの。

いろいろなことを教えられて、ズルズルとレスボスの泥沼に引摺りこまれてしまい、それがとうとうこんなアブノーマリストになってしまったわけです。それからそのアブ女中もお暇になり、私のそんな秘密は家人に知られないまま、私も女専を卒業するとすぐ結婚生活に入りましたが、もともと愛情も何もない結婚でしたから駄目でした。というより、アブの血に毒された私の体が、到底平凡な結婚生活では満たされるはずがなく、三ヵ月たらずで離婚してしまいました。

それから五年、気楽な独身生活をつづけておりますが、気が向けば相手がどんな階級の男でも……。でも、ほんとうのことを云いますと、私の被虐遍歴は終止符をうつことなく墓場までつづくことでしょう。結局、私をトコトンまで悦ばせてくれる相手にまだめぐり会わないのです。そんなわけで、私はいま、自分の体を自分で縛って息も詰るような加虐の責めを想像したり、ときには自分の体に針を刺したり、大腿や下腹部に火をすえて自虐の苦痛を味わっているのです。

司会　浜村さんは、腹部ナルシス［自己愛］なんですね。マゾの各種の要素がそこにあるんですよ。

浜村　先刻も申しましたように、私は自分の腹部に異常な愛着をおぼえ、少女時代には、こっそり自分の部屋にひきこもって裸になってみて陶酔したものです。こんもりと盛りあがった自分のお腹を見ていると、泣けてくるんですの、いとおしくて、そしてエロチックなんですわ、とても。

司会　浜村さんの場合でなくても、それは誰にもあるんですよ。ナルシスはマゾ的要素を多分にもっている。

浜村　前置きがだいぶ長たらしくなってしまいましたけど、結局、私は自分を満足させてくれる相手がいない、あるんでしょうが、めぐり会わないんでしょうね。そんなことから、だんだん自虐の陶酔をおぼえるようになり、体を刺したりお灸をすえたりするようになったのですが、そんなことをして肌を汚くしてしまうなら、いっそのこと刺青をしてみよう、そうしたら針を入れる苦痛と自分の美しいお腹を汚す自虐の悦びを同時に満足できる、そう思ったのです。

司会　実は、ちょっと前に写真を送って頂いて拝見したんですが、毛彫のなかなか見事なるものです。牡丹に蝶ですが、関西にもあんな上手な刺青師がいるとは思いませんでした。

西条　私も、そんなの入れてみようかしら。

浜村　いけませんわよ。そんなことしたらもう二度とモデルさんはできませんから。

深水　先刻、刺青をしているひとはマゾヒストだとおっしゃいましたが、家の近所にいるひとなんかでも、真夏なんかでもシャツを着ない、ちょっといくらいでマゾなんかには見えないのですがねえ。

司会　マゾの性質なんて、そんな外見的なものでは判断できませんよ。案外なところでそれがわかるんですが、たとえば血なんか見たりすると逆に強がったり威勢を見せたりするところが、本人はその苦痛に陶酔しているんです。むずかしいですよ、マゾの心理なんて。

浜村　本当にそうですねえ。

司会　深水さん、何か特別のお話を……。

深水　あら、何もありませんわ、先刻話した縛りの話くらいなものですわ。

長谷部　そう云えば、私も取って置きのお話をしてしまったわけですわね。

司会　うまく逃げられちゃいましたね。丁度時間もありませんので、ではこの辺で……。どうもみなさん、いろいろ有難うございました。

Draft Translation

Talking About the Pleasure of Being Tormented
An All-Women Masochists' Roundtable

Participants:
Saijō Midori, 22, model
Hamamura Eiko, 28, company secretary
Hasebe Yumi, 29, beautician
Fukamizu Takayo, 31, housewife
Moderator: Editorial Department
Location: Satsuki-sō restaurant, Bunkyō Ward

EXPERIENCES OF BEING TIED FOR THE FIRST TIME

Moderator: With the exception of Saijō-san, all of you are people with whom we have corresponded until now, so today is the first time we have actually met face to face. Although you are meeting one another for the first time, you share what might be called the feeling of masochism. I would like you to speak freely, as though you were meeting friends of ten years' standing. Opportunities like this are rare, so today I hope you will really let yourselves go.

Moderator: Hamamura-san has come from Kyoto and Hasebe-san from Sendai especially for this meeting. As moderator, I could not be more pleased. So perhaps Saijō-san can begin. Everyone already knows you through your photographs.

Saijō: Me? As I said earlier, today I came to listen to everyone else's stories. Please ask someone else first.

Moderator: If you retreat from the outset, we will never have a roundtable. Saijō-san, apart from being tied as a model, have you truly had no other experience?

Saijō: No. I have nobody to do it with.

Moderator: The first time, when I brought out the rope, you were trembling. I could practically hear your heart beating.

(General laughter.)

Saijō: I was frightened. I thought something might be done to me.

Moderator: You were almost pitiable. But in my experience, someone who gives such a clear outward reaction is the best kind of subject. A model who mechanically puts her hands behind her back with a blank expression because it is merely a modeling job stays stiff until the end. There is no sensuality at all. Saijō-san showed the changes in her emotions with her whole body. There was a genuine freshness to it, and the photographs came out well. These days you have become accustomed to it, so perhaps some of that sensuality has disappeared.

Saijō: After I was tied for the first time, my back hurt so badly that I finally had to take two or three days off from my other work.

Moderator: I did not tie you that tightly. There were no rope marks at all. It was probably anxiety about something unknown, making you tense your body and nerves more than necessary. Still, you did not dislike it, did you? You came back again immediately.

Saijō: That was business.

Moderator: No, there was evidence besides that that you did not dislike it.

Hamamura: Evidence? What do you mean?

Moderator: You left unmistakable physiological evidence of your feelings behind. After Saijō-san went home, while we were putting away her underwear, we found it there, on her panties.

Saijō: Really, please, not in front of everyone.

Moderator: Look, she has gone red.

(General laughter.)

Hasebe: If she felt that way, it is only natural. In my case, the man was someone I disliked so much I wanted to bite him, but I became aroused anyway.

Fukamizu: Was that the first time you were tied?

Hasebe: It was when I was attending beauty school, not long before graduation. I wanted good marks. I was terrible at beauty exercises and had very little confidence. There was an instructor I particularly disliked, and he ended up tying me.

All: How did he do it?

Hasebe: He told me, “You are hopeless at beauty exercises. With marks like that, I cannot give you a graduation certificate.” I was still very innocent and started crying. Then he said, “There is no need to cry. Stay after school and take an hour of special training from me every day.” That day he made me continue until I was completely exhausted. All the while he stood there watching. Whenever I grew dizzy with fatigue and tried to sit down, he would say, “Do not rest without permission. Continue until I tell you to stop.” He kept me going until my knees were trembling.

Fukamizu: That instructor was quite a sadist.

Hasebe: He was. Until then I had never noticed anything like that. I became so exhausted that even speaking was difficult. Then he said, almost as an order, “You must be tired. I will massage you. Lie down on that couch.” Somehow, without consciously deciding to, I found myself lying on it. The massage was the trick. I was already tired, and once he began massaging me I gradually drifted into sleep.

I fell into a strange state. When I suddenly opened my eyes, my clothes had been opened at the chest and my skirt had been removed. I was still lying on the couch. I tried to get up and discovered that my hands and feet had been tied and I could not move. I became frightened and tried to cry out, only to discover that I had been gagged as well.

Saijō: And did the teacher do anything to you?

Hasebe: I would like to say that is an indelicate question, but actually he did nothing. I later heard that he was impotent. He told me, with an extraordinarily happy expression, “Simply tying a woman like this and looking at her is enough to give me an erection.”

Moderator: Sadists who are impotent are surprisingly common. I have a friend who is forty-six and has never known a woman sexually. It is enough for him simply to collect bondage photographs. According to him, a bound woman is a work of art more beautiful than any ordinary beauty.

Hasebe: Even after he did that to me, I suddenly found myself liking him.

Fukamizu: Did he tie you often after that?

Hasebe: He awakened the masochistic blood that had been sleeping inside me. After that, sometimes I actively sought out being tied myself. But eventually another teacher discovered us. I graduated soon afterward, and he left the school, so that was the end of it.

Hamamura: Ordinary women would never understand stories like these. They would simply call us perverts and despise us. I work for a respectable company as the president's secretary, so I am already in a position where I could easily be misunderstood. I therefore divide my daytime and nighttime lives completely. At the office I behave as though I know absolutely nothing. Sometimes men talk about tying women. I become so excited my breath nearly stops, but I pretend not to understand. On days like that, as soon as I get home it feels as though all the blood in my body suddenly reverses direction. I cannot sit still.

Moderator: Hamamura-san, do you currently have a partner?

Hamamura: Not at all. If you know anyone suitable, perhaps you could introduce me.

Moderator: I find that difficult to believe. A beautiful woman like you without a partner?

Hasebe: At present I am completely idle too.

Moderator: Really? I find that equally hard to believe. Of course, with ordinary tastes it would be easy enough to find somebody, but perhaps your nerves have become too luxurious.

Hasebe: Not luxurious. Perhaps we are premium goods outside the normal specifications.

(Laughter.)

HOW WE WOULD LIKE TO BE TIED

Moderator: What kind of bondage best fits your masochistic feelings? In other words, what kind of treatment allows you to experience the greatest pleasure in being tormented? Put simply, in what kind of bondage are you most aroused?

Fukamizu: Recently there are more bondage scenes in films. There was one actress in a recent film whom I thought was very good. And in “Inazuma,” the scene in which Nobuko Otowa's geisha is tied by Ichirō Sugai was especially good. When I see scenes like that, I identify with them and suddenly become desperate to be tied myself. After seeing that film, on the way home I stopped at a waiting house and had my husband tie me.

Hasebe: We say “bondage” as though it were one thing, but there is a difference between punishment or torture and doing such things consensually as sexual foreplay. When I see or read punishment and torture scenes in films and novels, I become so excited that I shiver. But I would not want those things actually done to me. Even if I were tied so completely that I could not move at all, I would want intercourse afterward. I have never experienced bondage involving real violence.

Moderator: In Hasebe-san's case, the first man was impotent, and that has probably created a particular pattern in your subconscious. Fortunately, you have not gone further into the abnormal realm. I think that is a good thing. As masochism goes, yours may be the safest kind.

Hamamura: That would never be enough for me. I need rough male violence. I want to be beaten and physically tormented severely. I am completely abnormal.

Moderator: In Hamamura-san's case there certainly does seem to be a somewhat more extreme tendency. Even so, in actual experience you have apparently not gone nearly as far as your imagination. For you, merely being tied is not enough. A certain degree of sadistic aggression from the partner is necessary. Have you ever actually been treated very badly?

Hamamura: In reality, not nearly as badly as I would like.

Moderator: Listening to all of you, it is clear that each of you has developed masochistic tendencies to a considerable degree.

Fukamizu: Being tickled is the hardest thing for me. I can tolerate being hit surprisingly well. Recently my husband and I had an argument over a misunderstanding and I genuinely made him angry. He tied me and tickled me. It was so agonizing that I could not endure it. Finally I had an accident without consciously intending to. I urinated in the middle of the tatami room. I was ashamed and began to cry. Afterward my husband seemed far more embarrassed than I was.

Hamamura: Well, you really got it that time.

Moderator: Your husband can certainly be severe.

Fukamizu: Please excuse me.

(Laughter.)

MASOCHISM AND THE EXCITEMENT OF TATTOOING

Moderator: Let us change direction. I would like each of you to tell us something you have kept in reserve, something you cannot ordinarily tell anyone and might never have another chance to talk about. Hamamura-san, what happened with that tattoo you mentioned before? This is a perfect opportunity, so please tell everyone.

Hamamura: That is embarrassing.

Moderator: As I said earlier, everyone here is as much a masochist as you are. I expect the others will eventually tell stories just as remarkable.

Hasebe: Exactly. There is no point becoming shy now. I would very much like to hear about the tattoo.

Moderator: Psychologically speaking, people attracted to tattooing often have masochistic tendencies. There is pleasure in enduring that pain. How was it for you, Hamamura-san?

Hamamura: When the needles first went in, it simply hurt, and enduring it took all my strength. But by the second and third sessions, as the design gradually approached completion, merely seeing the needles, ink, and tattooing tools was enough to make me feel as though I might become sexually aroused. After that, with every individual needle prick, indescribable pleasure became mixed completely together with the pain until I was almost intoxicated with delight.

Moderator: Tattoo artists tell me that women tolerate tattooing better than men. Since women are masochistic by instinct, perhaps that is only natural.

Hasebe: Hamamura-san, where did you have yours done? If you would not mind, could you show us?

Saijō: I have never seen a tattoo on a woman. I would love to see it.

Moderator: After the stenographer has finished, the bath is ready, so perhaps when you all bathe later you can show them. Is that all right, Hamamura-san?

Hamamura: This has turned into quite a situation.

Moderator: Since everyone is going to see the real thing later, I suppose there is no harm in explaining. Hamamura-san's tattoo is rather difficult to see. It is on the lower abdomen and is only about fifteen centimeters square. If she simply covered the front with a hand towel, you would not be able to see anything else.

(Laughter.)

Hamamura: Please do not say things like that. I was hoping I could pretend innocence and escape.

Fukamizu: What made you want to get a tattoo?

Hamamura: The desire probably began when I was in my second year of girls' school. At the time tattooing had become fashionable among some of the older girls. They were harmless little tattoos, crosses, X marks, or one's initials in Roman letters. Naturally they were placed where other people would not immediately see them, under the breast or on the inner thigh. I had a cross put just above my lower abdomen.

I thought that when I grew older and had more pubic hair it would become hidden.

(Laughter.)

It made me extremely happy. Secretly I was delighted. Every day I would take out a mirror and admire it. Then one of our maids discovered it, and I truly thought I would die of shame.

The maid promised not to tell anyone, and eventually she drew me into a homosexual relationship. She taught me various things, and little by little I was pulled into what the article calls the “Lesbos swamp.” That was how I finally became such an abnormal woman.

Eventually the maid left. My family never learned my secret. After graduating from women's college I married almost immediately, but there had never been any real love in the marriage and it failed. More than that, my body, already shaped by abnormal desires, could never have been satisfied by ordinary married life. I divorced in less than three months.

For the five years since then I have enjoyed an easy single life. When the mood takes me I do not care what social class a man belongs to. But to tell the truth, I suspect my journey through masochism will continue without a full stop all the way to the grave. I have still never met someone capable of pleasing me completely. So now I sometimes tie my own body and imagine torments so severe that they take my breath away. At other times I prick my own skin with needles or apply burning moxa to my thighs and lower abdomen so that I can savor self-inflicted pain.

Moderator: Hamamura-san, you are also a kind of abdominal narcissist. A number of masochistic elements meet there.

Hamamura: As I said earlier, I have an abnormal attachment to my abdomen. When I was a girl I used to shut myself secretly in my room, undress, and become intoxicated by looking at myself. When I looked at the softly rounded swell of my own abdomen, I sometimes felt like crying because I loved it so much. It seemed terribly erotic to me.

Moderator: That is not unique to Hamamura-san. Everyone has some degree of narcissism, and narcissism contains many masochistic elements.

Hamamura: My introduction has become very long, but ultimately I have never found anyone capable of satisfying me. Perhaps such a person exists and I simply have not met him. Because of that, I gradually learned to become intoxicated by self-torment. I began pricking my body and burning myself with moxa. Then I thought, if I am going to damage my skin anyway, why not have a tattoo? That way I could experience both the pain of the needle entering my body and the masochistic pleasure of deliberately spoiling my beautiful abdomen at the same time.

Moderator: Actually, you sent me a photograph a little while ago and I saw it. The fine-line work is remarkably good. It is a peony with a butterfly. I had not realized there was such a skilled tattooist in Kansai.

Saijō: Perhaps I should get something like that too.

Hamamura: You must not. If you did, you could never work as a model again.

Fukamizu: Earlier you said that people with tattoos are masochists. There is a man near my house who shows his tattoo openly, even in summer, and he certainly does not look masochistic.

Moderator: You cannot judge masochistic tendencies from outward appearance. They emerge in unexpected places. Someone may see blood and become deliberately defiant or swaggering precisely because inwardly he is intoxicated by the pain. The psychology of masochism is complicated.

Hamamura: That is certainly true.

Moderator: Fukamizu-san, do you have any special story for us?

Fukamizu: No, nothing. The story about being tied that I told earlier is about all I have.

Hasebe: Come to think of it, I have already told my own special story as well.

Moderator: You have escaped neatly. Unfortunately, we are out of time, so we shall end here. Thank you very much, everyone, for all your stories.

Publication Translation

Optional. When this is blank, Publish Translation publishes the current draft. When present, this corrected version is published instead.

Talking About the Pleasure of Being Tormented
An All-Women Masochists' Roundtable

EXPERIENCES OF BEING TIED FOR THE FIRST TIME

Saijō: Me? As I said earlier, today I came to listen to everyone else's stories. Please ask someone else first.

Moderator: If you retreat from the outset, we will never have a roundtable. Saijō-san, apart from being tied as a model, have you truly had no other experience?

Saijō: No. I have nobody to do it with.

Moderator: The first time, when I brought out the rope, you were trembling. I could practically hear your heart beating.

(General laughter.)

Saijō: I was frightened. I thought something might be done to me.

Saijō: After I was tied for the first time, my back hurt so badly that I finally had to take two or three days off from my other work.

Saijō: That was business.

Moderator: No, there was evidence besides that that you did not dislike it.

Hamamura: Evidence? What do you mean?

Moderator: You left unmistakable physiological evidence of your feelings behind. After Saijō-san went home, while we were putting away her underwear, we found it there, on her panties.

Saijō: Really, please, not in front of everyone.

Moderator: Look, she has gone red.

(General laughter.)

Hasebe: If she felt that way, it is only natural. In my case, the man was someone I disliked so much I wanted to bite him, but I became aroused anyway.

Fukamizu: Was that the first time you were tied?

All: How did he do it?

Fukamizu: That instructor was quite a sadist.

Saijō: And did the teacher do anything to you?

Hasebe: Even after he did that to me, I suddenly found myself liking him.

Fukamizu: Did he tie you often after that?

Moderator: Hamamura-san, do you currently have a partner?

Hamamura: Not at all. If you know anyone suitable, perhaps you could introduce me.

Moderator: I find that difficult to believe. A beautiful woman like you without a partner?

Hasebe: At present I am completely idle too.

Moderator: Really? I find that equally hard to believe. Of course, with ordinary tastes it would be easy enough to find somebody, but perhaps your nerves have become too luxurious.

Hasebe: Not luxurious. Perhaps we are premium goods outside the normal specifications.

(Laughter.)

HOW WE WOULD LIKE TO BE TIED

Hamamura: That would never be enough for me. I need rough male violence. I want to be beaten and physically tormented severely. I am completely abnormal.

Hamamura: In reality, not nearly as badly as I would like.

Moderator: Listening to all of you, it is clear that each of you has developed masochistic tendencies to a considerable degree.

Hamamura: Well, you really got it that time.

Moderator: Your husband can certainly be severe.

Fukamizu: Please excuse me.

(Laughter.)

MASOCHISM AND THE EXCITEMENT OF TATTOOING

Hamamura: That is embarrassing.

Moderator: As I said earlier, everyone here is as much a masochist as you are. I expect the others will eventually tell stories just as remarkable.

Hasebe: Exactly. There is no point becoming shy now. I would very much like to hear about the tattoo.

Moderator: Psychologically speaking, people attracted to tattooing often have masochistic tendencies. There is pleasure in enduring that pain. How was it for you, Hamamura-san?

Moderator: Tattoo artists tell me that women tolerate tattooing better than men. Since women are masochistic by instinct, perhaps that is only natural.

Hasebe: Hamamura-san, where did you have yours done? If you would not mind, could you show us?

Saijō: I have never seen a tattoo on a woman. I would love to see it.

Moderator: After the stenographer has finished, the bath is ready, so perhaps when you all bathe later you can show them. Is that all right, Hamamura-san?

Hamamura: This has turned into quite a situation.

(Laughter.)

Hamamura: Please do not say things like that. I was hoping I could pretend innocence and escape.

Fukamizu: What made you want to get a tattoo?

I thought that when I grew older and had more pubic hair it would become hidden.

(Laughter.)

It made me extremely happy. Secretly I was delighted. Every day I would take out a mirror and admire it. Then one of our maids discovered it, and I truly thought I would die of shame.

Moderator: Hamamura-san, you are also a kind of abdominal narcissist. A number of masochistic elements meet there.

Moderator: That is not unique to Hamamura-san. Everyone has some degree of narcissism, and narcissism contains many masochistic elements.

Saijō: Perhaps I should get something like that too.

Hamamura: You must not. If you did, you could never work as a model again.

Fukamizu: Earlier you said that people with tattoos are masochists. There is a man near my house who shows his tattoo openly, even in summer, and he certainly does not look masochistic.

Hamamura: That is certainly true.

Moderator: Fukamizu-san, do you have any special story for us?

Fukamizu: No, nothing. The story about being tied that I told earlier is about all I have.

Hasebe: Come to think of it, I have already told my own special story as well.

Moderator: You have escaped neatly. Unfortunately, we are out of time, so we shall end here. Thank you very much, everyone, for all your stories.

Article Summary

This roundtable brings together four adult women identified as a model, company secretary, beautician, and housewife to discuss their experiences of masochistic desire, bondage, humiliation, pain, and tattooing. The discussion begins with memories of being tied for the first time, including a beauty-school episode in which Hasebe Yumi describes being bound and gagged by an instructor whose arousal centered on looking at a restrained woman. The participants distinguish consensual erotic bondage from punishment and torture, discuss films that stimulate their desire to be tied, and compare the kinds of restraint and aggression they find arousing. The latter portion centers on Hamamura Eiko's tattoo and her account of combining tattoo pain, narcissistic fascination with her abdomen, self-torment, and masochistic pleasure. Historically, the piece is notable for presenting women as articulate participants in early postwar Japanese discourse about masochism rather than merely as objects of male fantasy. At the same time, the moderator repeatedly interprets their experiences through highly speculative mid-century sexological claims about sadism, masochism, impotence, female nature, homosexuality, narcissism, and tattooing.

Translation Notes

The printed title combines 被虐の愉悦を語る, literally “speaking about the pleasure of being subjected to cruelty or torment,” with オールまぞ女ばかりの座談会, a colloquial headline meaning an all-women roundtable of masochists. The magazine repeatedly uses マゾ, マゾヒスト, サディスト, and アブ or アブノーマル as period sexual slang. エレクト is used unusually for sexual arousal in women as well as men; the translation generally renders it as “become aroused” rather than preserving the anatomically male English loanword. The discussion distinguishes 縛り from 折檻 and 拷問, here rendered as bondage, punishment, and torture. 猿ぐつわ is a gag. カマトト refers to a woman pretending sexual innocence or naivety. Hamamura's account uses レスボス in the period sense of lesbianism and describes a same-sex relationship with a household maid in language characteristic of 1950s popular sexology. 刺青 is tattooing; 毛彫 refers to fine-line or hairline tattoo work. お灸 or 灸 means moxibustion, the burning of moxa on the skin. ナルシス is a period abbreviation for narcissism. Several statements by the moderator, especially claims that women are instinctively masochistic or that impotence is associated with sadism, reflect period ideology rather than modern psychological or medical knowledge. The article ends on PDF page 170; PDF pages 171-175 contain neighboring articles and are excluded.

Uncertain readings:
- The ages in the participant list appear to be Saijō Midori 22, Hamamura Eiko 28, Hasebe Yumi 29, and Fukamizu Takayo 31; the small numerals are somewhat degraded.
- One film title and actress name in Fukamizu's discussion on PDF pages 167-168 are too degraded to transcribe confidently; the reference to the film 稲妻, Nobuko Otowa, and Ichirō Sugai is comparatively clear.
- A short phrase in Hamamura's description of the degree of violence she desires on PDF page 168 is unclear in the scan and is omitted rather than guessed.
- A short phrase describing what Fukamizu's husband did immediately after tying her during their quarrel is partially illegible; the subsequent statement that he tickled her is clear.
- A phrase describing the household maid who discovered Hamamura's schoolgirl tattoo is partially obscured; the following statement that the maid drew her into a same-sex relationship is clear.
- The exact reading of the participant name 深水たか世 may be Fukamizu Takayo or another reading of the given name; the Japanese is preserved in the transcription.

Missing or illegible text:
- PDF page 168: a short phrase in Hamamura's description of desired physical violence is not reliably legible.
- PDF page 168: part of the sentence describing Fukamizu's husband's actions immediately after tying her is unclear.
- PDF page 169: a short descriptive phrase concerning the maid who discovered Hamamura's tattoo is unclear.
- PDF pages 167-168: one film title and associated actress name are too degraded for reliable transcription.

Research Notes

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Status: Published

Published: August 15, 2026 at 3:29 PM by Zetsu

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